Author Topic: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall  (Read 38972 times)

knotreel

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2012, 12:09:34 am »
As someone looking to get into tournament fishing, entry fee is one thing, but skill level is another, would it be feasible to have an amateur and a pro level. Say the entry fee and payout for amateur level is lower than the pro level. And to move to pro you need x number of wins/points.

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barts

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2012, 09:31:19 am »
After getting a new ride this year, and observing in a few tournies I was planning on fishing as many KOLT events as possible this year. One thing I like is the idea of the entry in the $400-500 dollar range. Because like Yvan said it's only a $150-$200 a team member, plus expenses of course.  My team will consist of 3 guys who have been fishing since the mid 80's and have only ever fished a handful of tournies.  So to have the cost of the entry fee more affordable is great for us guys getting our feet wet.
Also another question I have when can I register for the events?  I have a cheque sitting waiting to go in the mail.  It's going to be a long winter.
Matt

Twinfish

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2012, 01:34:41 pm »
Ivan,

I found your tournaments to be well run and have enjoyed fishing them when I can.  You should be congraduated for everything you have done to promote sport fishing.  No change to the entry fees or even an increase would suit me fine, however a perception of cost savings may help bring more tournament anglers to the tournament scene.

In reality the entry fee is the smallest part of the tournament, $600 split 4 ways is only $150 ea and $ 400 entry is only $ 100 ea.  I don't think money is the issue as we are only talking about a delta of $50.  I would love to fish more of the tournaments, however work tends to get in the way.  To be competative you need to spend some time on the water and thats where the cost begin to add up, time off, gas etc..



fisher

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2012, 02:37:32 pm »
I and a couple of my close buds would defintely look more closely to participate in KOTL tourneys for sure if the entry fee was reduced. Although we are basically new to Lake O fishing we are having a ball due to the great fishery we have here.
Having participated in a few local derbies and as an observer in the tightlines, no doubt that the friendly competition is a good time, but its not just the entry fee as others have noted thats an issue. We run a 31 Tiara and shes a pig on fuel, which is by far the single most expensive cost. However any way that the costs of joining to the KOTL can be cut help to defray the fuel costs. So even a cut of 50$ per angler if you have a team of 3 or 4....well we can now put that extra 150/200$ towards fuel.

Another issue with the derbies is the locations....if your boat is trailerable its relatively cost effective to hit all the different Port/derbies. If I have to head from my home port of whitby to STcatherines I would probably drop 600/800 on fuel, just for the back in forth....

Anyways, that said if entry fees were lowered we would certainly be wanting to partipate in those events that are cost effective for us to get to by water....so most along the North shore and hell maybe even as far as Niagara end... 8)

Keep us posted so we can see the lineup of events and locations for next year...

Regards

Mike

TyeeTanic

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2012, 03:55:33 pm »
my aplogies... too many guys with Tyee in their user names these days it seems...   ???
nonetheless silly idea...

Well there will always be someone who wants to stay with the same old (the pessimists) and always someone who will suggest changes (the optimists). Always someone who will criticize. And always someone who knows better.
These posts are more interesting then the Soap Operas.
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TyeeTanic

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2012, 03:58:24 pm »
Limit the amount of guys per team to 3, that way you will get more boats involved.

this idea is coming from the same guy who had all of the GOSDs shortcomings figured out?
First off, what are you talking about??
I NEVER complained or had to figure out any "shortcomings" of the G.O.S.D as i feel it is fine the way it is.
It's been run on and off for over 30 years and some newbies think they should have a right to voice changes so they can save a dime, freedom of speech so be it!

Now, back to my responce.........alot of teams are made up of more then one boat owner, limit the amount to 3 guys per team and one team of 6 well hopefully turn into 2 teams of 3.........Just a thought!

That's too funny. Saving a dime when the gas on one trip costs us $100.

And I don't think your idea would work. 4 guys is a good nuMber to have for a tournie.
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Silver Tracker

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2012, 06:55:30 pm »
I disagree- does not make sense to charge per person?

If its a 3 man min? on a 19 ft boat 3 is getting crowded tight.

it is what it is- i like the suggestions of $200 for a day 400 for the weekend.

Makes it much more affordable- I like the format of #2- especially since I normally fish with my son.

Than if you want at the end to have a big fish off? up the anty a bit and let people decide.  I prefer this to the GOSD.

I was an observer at tightlines and it was great- I would change the blast off though- a little bit hairy for smaller boats.



TyeeTanic

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2012, 09:44:23 pm »
Sorry Silver Tracker - I meant to say that a 4 man crew is good in our setup. We have a bigger boat, and you need one person at the helm always as visibility is not good from the back.  Another to net, two to set lines, and reel in fish. 

I understand it starts getting crowded on a 19 footer, but I had one last year, and I would say 3 can be done.
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rm

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2012, 11:18:50 pm »



Look at this spring for example.  There was a tourney of 20 teams i think (not sure) at the ramp for 1 day.  Now they can join us for $200 and the possibility of winning $5000 to $7000 first place for one day.  (50 that we had plus 20 they had = 70 teams for one day)


Key thing about this is that most of these small tourneys have a registration morning of the event and at the particular one you mention as well as a lot of others MOST of the boats were under 20' with I bet half more like 16-17'. If you ask guys with these types of boats to pay up 2 wks. in advance it instantly turns a lot off due to not knowing what the winds will be like, We've discussed this before many moons ago and the facts are still the same a 25-30' boat can go when the smaller tinnies like ours can't and then it becomes a very expensive donation not an entry fee.

You wanted suggestions so here I go again if you want to get more guys out for a taste of tourney fishing make it like a real pro am with a separate pot for the little/big guys we'll call them OR give the small boaters a late registration maybe the night before like it used to be when we fished it. I'm not knocking the series at all it is what it is but the writing was on the wall when it became a much bigger entry/payout with the two week prior registration, it became a big boat tourney.

OUTTALINEagain

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2012, 08:44:45 am »
A few have mentioned the word PRO.  Someone please define the word Pro in the lake o salmon world!!!

getitwet

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2012, 08:56:38 am »
Hey I can agree with you that it became a bigger boat tourney for sure.  I wouldnt say a Big boat tourney.  Let me explain sort of this way.  Over half out field spend 1000 or more just to get to the event.  Lets say 20 boats. And I say this because its happened to us in Port Credit.  So on Friday the registration is 40 boats and all the local and small boats see the forcast and say we are not getting in.  On Sun Morning its fishible, but we only have 16 teams in.   Do you think its easy getting those guys back.  Do you think its worth that risk to gain 2-3 boats and maybe lose 15-20.  This is a dead horse in my opinion without sounding like an ass.  We have tried that formula for 10 yrs prior to going to what we do now and frankly it might be one the best moves we have made to our series. 

I believe that if the guys want to fish a tourney for $200 for one day they will have the opportunity to fish one that is 50 plus teams and that is nowhere else on the lake today.  and if they want to do it twice they can do that as well.  There are a lot of options to get guys to fish and we have eliminited a lot of reasons or excuses not to fish.  Cant solve all the excuses but Im sure if this is a direction that we are taking we should increase the possibilities of new guys trying their hand.

getitwet

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2012, 09:08:13 am »
Outtaline again

I would like to know this as well. Lol

Big topic of conversation on the US side as well.

Although I can see where you would look at a tourney that has a 12 fish daily weigh in as intimidating but with KOTL you only have to weigh in 5 fish.  I see a lot of post with things such as 11/19 and 10/15 and 17/23 ect.  I can tell you this that in the fall we got lucky and took 6 bites to get 6 to the boat on sunday and 7 bites to get 6 to the boat on Sat.  Many would consider us pros.  We didn't feel like that those days. 
So Like Chuck just asked, what defines a pro?  In Ontario a there are not too many full time captains and many "amateur" teams walk around with sponsors and all decked out with shirts and product given.  Who is and who isn't.  That is one of the main reasons when we started in 1999 we went to a 5 fish box in order to level te playing field a little.  Sure some guys are seeded higher at times and in some ports but so are they in hockey or tennis and golf.  The difference is they have to qualify to get to the pro level.  I dont think this will ever happen in the salmon market.  Sponsors are not there and we dont have enough teams that compete to qualify some in deifferent classes

Trannyman

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2012, 10:53:52 am »
Hey Yvan, just do it.  Like the saying "Build it and they will come."

2009 was our first full year of fishing all the KOTL tournaments and the Tightline's Shootout. We have met a ton of great guys during this time and had a blast doing it. I definitely would recommend the experience to any angler. An experience of a lifetime.

Yvan has listened to the competitors and has changed the format over the years many times to try to accommodate us and get more anglers into the events. Mostly, a very thankless job but we still have the series to compete in. Thanks Yvan.

This season we fished the 2 KOTL tournament, the Wilson Harbor Invitational, 2 Tightline's Shootouts and the ATOMMIK Invitational in Oswego, (only Canadian team). 3 tournaments with 5 team members and 3 with 4 team members. Brother Don & I were the only members to fish all 6. Our costs were under $2,000 each but we stay on the boat and we won a few bucks. I want to know where you can holiday for 20 days with great weather for under 2 grand ?

I believe the 1-2 day format will be a huge advantage to young teams wanting to get their start in the tournament scene. I have fished a few of the small tournaments over the years and there are many great angler duos & trios out there that should try this. Add 1 more member to the team and get-r-dun.

As far as guys bitching about small boats vs big boats in rough water conditions, we don't go if there is a Small Craft Warning announced. In 2010 we only fished 5 of the 10 KOTL tournament days.

I like both tournament formats. 5 fish - 8 rods and the 6 fish - 6 rod shootout type event. I have talked to observers that have been on a winning boat and they won the tournament only using 4 rods instead of 8.
Less maybe more.

One recommendation that I would make is speed up the weigh-in process. Tom got it right in Oswego. Awesome weigh-in. As soon as a team got to the tent, they started to weigh the boxes. At some of these events the weigh-in takes forever and it is a pain standing in the hot sun. Just something to think about for the organizers.

Secondly the tournament info is a must. Before and after the event.

Great  thread.
   Al

DDay

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2012, 02:30:25 pm »
I think the 1st step to growing the series is doing what we are doing right here...talking about it, kodos for opening up the conversation.

Many good points posted. One I would like to highlight again is what Tom called Tourney Info. This is a must and as Tom said not just leading up to the tournament. Afterwards guys want to know who placed where and what the payouts were. Guys like to look back at the standings and see what that one lost fish or extra 10lbs would have done for them. If there is a series its imperative to have the updated standings ASAP. And by adding more entry levels as you are suggesting this will become even more important.

There has been some talk about small boats vs large boats, and how some may feel it's not a level playing field. Not sure a Pro/Am is the way you would want to go. Our friends in the states did away with this format this past year. Might be be something to learn from that?
One idea I have been giving some thought to the last few days is why not create two overall Calcutta's. One at a higher entry level say around $300 and the other $100 or less. However the catch would be you can't enter both. The idea behind this would be most of the series contenders, like Vision Quest, Thrillseeker, Royal Flush, and Bill Collector would opt into the Higher Calcutta leaving the smaller calcutta for some of the smaller or lets say less groomed anglers. You could also class them into boat size, although I don't think boat size always tells the entire story. Some might argue you may get sandbaggers in the smaller calcutta, but to be honest I don't really see it. I think most of the big guns want to compete for the biggest pot. Besides I don't think I would want to be the guy that finished in the top 3 overall the year previous going in the smaller calcutta. Thoughts?

Great Thread...thanks for getting it started Yvan.
Darryl



getitwet

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Re: King Of The Lake Spring and Fall
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2012, 03:50:25 pm »
Hey Darryl

I couldnt agree more with the info thing.  We have lacked worse than anyone and Tom did a bang up job at his.   All other tourneys stuggled with it along the way.  In our defence we tried so hard for past 2 yrs in cleaning up and and shoring up the way we enter and weigh in we didnt do as good of a job on our weigh in show and info leading and following the event. 

Every event we try to look back and say we would love this, lets do that and try this and try that.  At the end of the day, we have tried things that work and we have done things that suck.  I will be the first to admit.  I also believe that we really didn't have any other event to compare things to and also pick and chose things that we liked. 

I think this thread shold be looked at by evey organizer as to determine where they go from where they are today.   Very informative thread to say the least.

On the calcutta deal.  I have been pondering a long box calcutta.  We have been pressured over the yrs to make 6-8-10-even 12 fish boxes.  I think adding 5 fish to your box after weghing your 5 would kill paul our weigh in guy but would add another dimension to the "groomed guy".  A little along the way of the proam but simpler and as an option for who wants to buy in.

So...  $100 calcutta for regular 5 fish and another for $200-300 for long box.   Weekend long total as there would be good payouts each day for regular 5 fish box. 

I think we could keep it simple and have tremendous payouts and hopefully draw a farm system that can provide not just our events but all events new teams.